Sunday, August 22, 2010

3Jack & Tilt

After my latest swing update, people started asking me more about the changes that were made as this came after my 1-day school with 3Jack Top 50 Instructor, Dan Carraher (aka iteachgolf).

Here again is the swing.

Of course, with iteach's affiliation with the Stack and Tilt golf swing, I got some e-mails wondering if I was going to the S&T, why and what I thought of it.

My feeling is that my swing is about as S&T as it's ever been since the 1-day school. I know many are critical of the S&T, even myself in the past.

One thing I feel that needs to be cleared up is that my swing is still far from being the S&T. But I also feel that the thoughts the S&T pattern is not very dynamic is hogwash.

Let's take a look at Charlie Wi.

I don't think anybody can accurately say that Wi's swing is not dynamic. In fact, I joked with some friends the other day that the stigma behind S&T is a bit ridiculous because one can do the same exact parts of the S&T, but instead call it the PB&J swing and everybody would love it. Perhaps Plummer and Bennett can find somebody whose last name starts with the letter J so they can re-name their brand the PB&J swing

In fact, I believe that is something that Sean Foley has done with Sean O'Hair. Awhile back there was a golf magazine article that had O'Hair go over the changes he made with his swing with Foley and they were pretty much exactly what the S&T teaches. If that wasn't enough, it's common knowledge that Foley has talked to Plummer & Bennett on quite a few occasions to get their thoughts on the swing. But, O'Hair has pretty much denounced S&T and every critic buys into that, but the reality is far different.

Anyway, one thing I'm a bit skeptical about is leaning left in the backswing. I think some can do it, but some can't. Then again, the S&T people will tell you that the swing is about being 'centralized' in the backswing and leaning left in the backswing is optional.

Fair enough.

One thing I've learned is that this type of swing or swings that is similar to it (or whatever you want to call it) is incredibly easy and simple. However, therein lies part of the problem. We are taught to make a big full turn in the backswing and raise the arms. But here that may not be the best option for the golfer. In fact, on of the problems I have with my swing in those videos is that the swing is a bit too long, even though I tried to feel like I was only swinging halfway on the backswing. But we know that the 'feel isn't real' most of the time, so that's why my swing goes well beyond 1/2 way back.

But when I 'do it right' the swing feels almost ridiculously simple and easy. And a big part of me fights against that in the downswing.

So what would I say about the S&T?

It's a dynamic golf swing when executed correctly.

It's also very easy and simplistic to do.

Thus, it's a very easy and simplistic way to create a dynamic swing.


Is it the most dynamic swing out there? Certainly not. You won't see any S&T patterns in the dynamic swings on the Re-MAX long distance driving tours.

Are there other ways to have dynamic swings? Certainly.

Is the S&T for everybody? Of course not.

So, the S&T may not be the most dynamic or the only way to have a dynamic swing, but it's an incredibly simple and easy way to develop and dynamic swing.



Erik J. Barzeski said...

I've yet to meet an instructor - including Mike and Andy - who want students to actually "lean left" at the top of the backswing the way you're describing it - towards the target.

Charlie Wi is awfully close to the model Mike and Andy prescribe and he's not leaning left at the top:

If you're leaning left at the top of the backswing, you're not staying stacked or centered, nor is your weight only going to be 60/40 (feeling) at the top - it'll feel like much more.

The "left tilt" that Stack and Tilt prescribes is only "left" at setup. Turned 90 degrees, that tilt is oriented towards the ball to maintain your inclination to the ground.

I will also say that many players used to translating to their right will FEEL like they're leaning left, but that feeling is just to help them stay centered.

So you're right to be skeptical, but I'm still not entirely sure it's well understood. There's no literal "leaning towards the target" at the top of the backswing. P1 through P4 the goal is to remain stacked - upper center on top of lower center. Then the hips unstack as they push forward and leave the upper center where it was. The upper center won't move from P1 to P8 or so.

As for the knock against S&T for distance, I don't know if I get it. Mike and Andy didn't set out to design a swing that would hit the ball the farthest. If they did you'd see a lot of extension back and through (like Jason Zuback), you'd bend both elbows a lot to add more levers, etc. But the forward hip push and the "jumping" components as well as the extension through the ball are certainly distance components, and in the end the S&T swing arrives at its stated goal of hitting the ball the cleanest, farthest, and with good control. A mix of all aspects.

Oh, and Troy Matteson would beg to differ that S&T can't be used to hit the ball a long way. :-) Or to set scoring records.

Anyway, I feel like I might have overstayed my welcome with the length of that comment. If so, sorry. :-)

Anonymous said...

This was a good post. Thanks.

Can you elaborate on why you think S&T is "simple" ?

And why component of it do yuo think helps you the most?

Rich H. said...

For one, you can take a very short backswing, hit the ball with ample power, accuracy and consistency. Two, the hip motion is made very simplistic by the knee motion and feet which are pretty simple. I can't really explain it w/o giving it away, but it sure beats thinking about actively turning the hips.

Drawing or fading the ball is pretty simple as well, done by some simple adjustments at address with the ball and the feet.


Anonymous said...


Why does it matter if you "give it away?"

How does it mesh with the ABS program you are doing?

Anonymous said...

Re: knees/feet. The key moves are pretty obvious if you watch Charlie in the video. Get the left knee outside of the left foot and roll over onto the inside of the right foot before letting the heel come up off the ground. Both of these thoughts will help to get the hips moving forward toward the target before turning open.