I'm sorry but that was a ridiculous demonstration. Stay in one place and produce about as much power as a hamster, then produce the biggest lean that I have EVER seen demonstrated and have never actually witnessed a single person ever doing in a golf swing.
You get your weigh to the right foot because it compounds the forces on the right foot and allows for the most shear force to get your lower body starting the kinetic chain. Leaning over as if you're on top of a 50 story building and someone is holding your belt loop is not what we teach.
Steve, are we to understand from your comments that you've never exaggerated a move in order to make a point or better illustrate something to students?
The "maximum translation" move is not a move we say golfers make - we're merely illustrating how flexion and translation can affect the golf swing. Golfers DO make smaller versions of that move.
Your crack about distance is silly, but I see someone else has already taken care of that.
Hi Steve - I am not about to get into an argument about this point and I'm surprised by the amount of "anger" in the tone of your comment. This video was filmed at a recent golf school and we do these things to help golfers (and instructors as both were present) see things as they really are - not as so many of us are "told" they are. My hope would be that you would see the video for what it is, an illustration of two potential extremes and the problems one would cause. I COMPLETELY agree, btw, that virtually nobody (I say virtually because I have seen the swing where the golfer stays completely in their "spine angle" and flexed over to the top of the backswing) gets to the top of the backstroke in the manner I demonstrated.
The REASON: Because virtually all golfers, of every level, do the three things described in the video during their backswings. The demonstration shows clearly exactly what would happen if we stay bent over, in flexion, and retain our spine angle COMPLETELY. Not to be rude but I really don't care whether or not you believe this to be true. I do, however, wish that you would consider it with an open mind before you rant on about it. Again...there is a reason the illustration is done in this manner.
BTW - I had a look at a few of your swings on youtube. Though you retain more forward flexion than I would prescribe (would be the first thing I'd change actually) you do, to much more of a degree than you likely realize, turn your shoulders, stand up or extend, and tilt left during the backswing. Food for thought if nothing else.
@Martin Chuck, PGA Yes Grout did get Nicklaus to do it in that manner. And I'm not saying that couldn't work for some - what I am saying is "what is wrong with understanding why and how these things happen?". As an instructor we should have the highest level of understanding to be able to properly convey sensations (and even specifics) to our students if need be. Also, (and I respect your opinions and think the Tour Striker is great btw) am I to understand that terms like flexion and extension may be "over the head" of some golfers and instructors?
A great example of my point would be Hank Haney holding Barkley's head or telling him to stop dropping it down...sounds wonderful in principle but actually explaining to him HOW to make that happen would have been much more beneficial. One other point - If I give someone the correct instruction and understanding of how to keep their head stable and centered on the backstroke they are generally able to do it very quickly. If I was to hold their head with no instruction or sensation they would do it correctly with me there I'm sure...and as soon as I walk away they would go right back to doing things in their original manner. i.e. without me there to hold their head for thousands of swings the student needs to be given a way to accomplish this on their own...through understanding of the principle.
I'm sorry but that was a ridiculous demonstration. Stay in one place and produce about as much power as a hamster, then produce the biggest lean that I have EVER seen demonstrated and have never actually witnessed a single person ever doing in a golf swing.
ReplyDeleteYou get your weigh to the right foot because it compounds the forces on the right foot and allows for the most shear force to get your lower body starting the kinetic chain. Leaning over as if you're on top of a 50 story building and someone is holding your belt loop is not what we teach.
This crap just pisses me off.
If you think you're right, why don't you challenge him to a debate.
ReplyDeleteAnd the crowd screams: 'Jerry!, Jerry!'
ReplyDeleteThe hips swing, the spine tilts. You can see it in so many good players today, especially the long hitters.
ReplyDeleteI will happily debate. Never afraid of a challenge.
ReplyDeleteHe was ranked 7th in driver distance on the Nike tour in 1999 must have been a lot of hamsters out there then.
ReplyDeleteSteve, are we to understand from your comments that you've never exaggerated a move in order to make a point or better illustrate something to students?
ReplyDeleteThe "maximum translation" move is not a move we say golfers make - we're merely illustrating how flexion and translation can affect the golf swing. Golfers DO make smaller versions of that move.
Your crack about distance is silly, but I see someone else has already taken care of that.
Hi Steve - I am not about to get into an argument about this point and I'm surprised by the amount of "anger" in the tone of your comment. This video was filmed at a recent golf school and we do these things to help golfers (and instructors as both were present) see things as they really are - not as so many of us are "told" they are. My hope would be that you would see the video for what it is, an illustration of two potential extremes and the problems one would cause. I COMPLETELY agree, btw, that virtually nobody (I say virtually because I have seen the swing where the golfer stays completely in their "spine angle" and flexed over to the top of the backswing) gets to the top of the backstroke in the manner I demonstrated.
ReplyDeleteThe REASON: Because virtually all golfers, of every level, do the three things described in the video during their backswings. The demonstration shows clearly exactly what would happen if we stay bent over, in flexion, and retain our spine angle COMPLETELY. Not to be rude but I really don't care whether or not you believe this to be true. I do, however, wish that you would consider it with an open mind before you rant on about it. Again...there is a reason the illustration is done in this manner.
BTW - I had a look at a few of your swings on youtube. Though you retain more forward flexion than I would prescribe (would be the first thing I'd change actually) you do, to much more of a degree than you likely realize, turn your shoulders, stand up or extend, and tilt left during the backswing. Food for thought if nothing else.
Didn't Jack Grout get Niclaus to do something like this by putting a hand on his head? Seems a lot easier than "Flexion," ect:)
ReplyDelete@Martin Chuck, PGA Yes Grout did get Nicklaus to do it in that manner. And I'm not saying that couldn't work for some - what I am saying is "what is wrong with understanding why and how these things happen?". As an instructor we should have the highest level of understanding to be able to properly convey sensations (and even specifics) to our students if need be. Also, (and I respect your opinions and think the Tour Striker is great btw) am I to understand that terms like flexion and extension may be "over the head" of some golfers and instructors?
ReplyDeleteA great example of my point would be Hank Haney holding Barkley's head or telling him to stop dropping it down...sounds wonderful in principle but actually explaining to him HOW to make that happen would have been much more beneficial. One other point - If I give someone the correct instruction and understanding of how to keep their head stable and centered on the backstroke they are generally able to do it very quickly. If I was to hold their head with no instruction or sensation they would do it correctly with me there I'm sure...and as soon as I walk away they would go right back to doing things in their original manner. i.e. without me there to hold their head for thousands of swings the student needs to be given a way to accomplish this on their own...through understanding of the principle.
I agree Dave. Haney teaches mechanics from feel instead of feel from mechanics. It's as simple as that.
ReplyDelete3JACK