Rich, i think that at first sight, your swing looks a lot as a S&T swing more than john Ericson (ABS) swing. I am not S&T because i dont get good results with it, but S&T looks beter than any other swing, moving the club on plne and on a circle as a perfect machine. Also other thig that can i see for S&Tilters is they have a very good tempo.
I see plenty of a migration to ABS compared to before. Flatter, lots of good footwork, more swinging left, angled hinging, kind of what looks like a hold off move at the end.
I wonder what your self assessment is Richie, and how did you make these changes?
Anonimous, all this component that you identify with ABS(flat backswing, and downswing: elbow plane downswing, stay flat feet and after this roll rear foot(some abs also skid after roll)and angled hinge, etc)) are not exclusive or a discover from ABS, you can see perfect samples of this from S&Titers, and others. In my opinion Rich is a S&Tilter with a mix of the move to left of the left hip before finish the backswing, as Vj Troylo identify by Hogan in his book. Because this movement to the left on the baackswing, Rich dont tilt his spine to the left, because this he is not a S&T. But anyway the element that Anonimous refer are not exclusive created or used only by ABS.
My swing looks more S&T because I tend to lock the right leg instead of just straightening it. I have a reverse hip slide motion in the backswing and when my right leg really locks, the reverse hip slide increases. Thus, it looks very S&T. BUT, my spine is hardly vertical or tilting left at the top of the swing, a big part of the S&T. My shoulder turn in the backswing would probably be flat by S&T standards as well.
I'm only in Module 3 of ABS. There's 11 modules. I'm starting to hit all 3 modules with getting on the '4:30 line' with pitch elbow. Getting the footwork that is used and pivoting the torso beyond impact and getting extension post impact. The 'swinging left' stuff won't be fully incorporated until Module 4 from what I gather.
There's things that I'd like to eventually get rid of, but I think it's best to stay the course so I don't complicate things and don't lose focus on the sequence of how we do things in ABS.
Up until now I've been willing to give you some benefit of doubt in regards to "you don't like S&T" but then you have to go and say that you're not tilting left?
Yes you are. Just about as much as any good S&T teacher would prescribe, you are. You do realize that left is "towards the ball" at the top of the backswing, not towards the target, right?
His swing is looking world class IMO. I want to know how he got there, and is getting there. What is he working on, what are his thoughts and feels, if he will share those.
Erik, I don't see my spine being vertical or tilting left of the target at the top of the swing. My hips go towards the target at the top of the swing, but my spine looks to me that it tilts away from the target. The right knee locks instead of straightens and I think I get too much left knee flex in the backswing. I think that causes some problems with the downswing.
I don't think my golf swing is anywhere near world class. I think people get fooled by my rhythm. Sort of like watching Fred Couples swing live with that beautiful flowing rhythm, but when you break down his swing with still pics, it doesn't look as great.
Sorry for the deleted comment. I wrote another comment as you were writing your response above.
Your hips go targetward a bit on the backswing, yes. That leads to the "look" that your spine goes away from the target because it does a bit more than pure S&T - but that's not because you've not "extended" or "tilted left."
The leftward tilt at the top of the backswing is towards the ball. After all, you've rotated 90 degrees - S&T does not want someone's back angled or tilting towards the target.
I'd agree about your knees - a bit too much "locking" and perhaps a bit too much flexing of the left knee (and perhaps slightly in slightly the wrong direction), but with all due respect I think you're wrong about the "extending" and the "tilting left." You do those things. If you didn't, your head would move all over the place.
And as you know, your swing is better than 99%+ of golfers out there. But you want it to be better, and I understand that feeling too. :-)
Steve, you couldn't be more wrong. I see moves like that - perhaps not that exaggerated, but sometimes - ALL THE TIME when teaching the average golfer. Their head moves well off the golf ball and then often rises (which he didn't demonstrate, because they'd be doing some of the "standing up"), both on the backswing and downswing. At least 75% I've worked with or seen get a modification. "Coil into your right side" or "Turn your left shoulder over your right foot" or whatever are also culprits. Either way, there's no straw man - that move is seen ALL THE TIME. It's reality.
13 comments:
Good video.
How does S&T match with what you are doing with your swing changes?
Many downswing similarities. A few backswing similarities.
Rich, i think that at first sight, your swing looks a lot as a S&T swing more than john Ericson (ABS) swing. I am not S&T because i dont get good results with it, but S&T looks beter than any other swing, moving the club on plne and on a circle as a perfect machine. Also other thig that can i see for S&Tilters is they have a very good tempo.
I see plenty of a migration to ABS compared to before. Flatter, lots of good footwork, more swinging left, angled hinging, kind of what looks like a hold off move at the end.
I wonder what your self assessment is Richie, and how did you make these changes?
Anonimous, all this component that you identify with ABS(flat backswing, and downswing: elbow plane downswing, stay flat feet and after this roll rear foot(some abs also skid after roll)and angled hinge, etc)) are not exclusive or a discover from ABS, you can see perfect samples of this from S&Titers, and others. In my opinion Rich is a S&Tilter with a mix of the move to left of the left hip before finish the backswing, as Vj Troylo identify by Hogan in his book. Because this movement to the left on the baackswing, Rich dont tilt his spine to the left, because this he is not a S&T. But anyway the element that Anonimous refer are not exclusive created or used only by ABS.
My swing looks more S&T because I tend to lock the right leg instead of just straightening it. I have a reverse hip slide motion in the backswing and when my right leg really locks, the reverse hip slide increases. Thus, it looks very S&T. BUT, my spine is hardly vertical or tilting left at the top of the swing, a big part of the S&T. My shoulder turn in the backswing would probably be flat by S&T standards as well.
I'm only in Module 3 of ABS. There's 11 modules. I'm starting to hit all 3 modules with getting on the '4:30 line' with pitch elbow. Getting the footwork that is used and pivoting the torso beyond impact and getting extension post impact. The 'swinging left' stuff won't be fully incorporated until Module 4 from what I gather.
There's things that I'd like to eventually get rid of, but I think it's best to stay the course so I don't complicate things and don't lose focus on the sequence of how we do things in ABS.
Rich,
Up until now I've been willing to give you some benefit of doubt in regards to "you don't like S&T" but then you have to go and say that you're not tilting left?
Yes you are. Just about as much as any good S&T teacher would prescribe, you are. You do realize that left is "towards the ball" at the top of the backswing, not towards the target, right?
Whatever.
His swing is looking world class IMO. I want to know how he got there, and is getting there. What is he working on, what are his thoughts and feels, if he will share those.
Erik, I don't see my spine being vertical or tilting left of the target at the top of the swing. My hips go towards the target at the top of the swing, but my spine looks to me that it tilts away from the target. The right knee locks instead of straightens and I think I get too much left knee flex in the backswing. I think that causes some problems with the downswing.
I don't think my golf swing is anywhere near world class. I think people get fooled by my rhythm. Sort of like watching Fred Couples swing live with that beautiful flowing rhythm, but when you break down his swing with still pics, it doesn't look as great.
3JACK
Sorry for the deleted comment. I wrote another comment as you were writing your response above.
Your hips go targetward a bit on the backswing, yes. That leads to the "look" that your spine goes away from the target because it does a bit more than pure S&T - but that's not because you've not "extended" or "tilted left."
The leftward tilt at the top of the backswing is towards the ball. After all, you've rotated 90 degrees - S&T does not want someone's back angled or tilting towards the target.
I'd agree about your knees - a bit too much "locking" and perhaps a bit too much flexing of the left knee (and perhaps slightly in slightly the wrong direction), but with all due respect I think you're wrong about the "extending" and the "tilting left." You do those things. If you didn't, your head would move all over the place.
And as you know, your swing is better than 99%+ of golfers out there. But you want it to be better, and I understand that feeling too. :-)
Wow, talk about making a straw man. That move he made explaining the "typical" swing keeping spine tilt isn't at all what I've seen.
Steve, you couldn't be more wrong. I see moves like that - perhaps not that exaggerated, but sometimes - ALL THE TIME when teaching the average golfer. Their head moves well off the golf ball and then often rises (which he didn't demonstrate, because they'd be doing some of the "standing up"), both on the backswing and downswing. At least 75% I've worked with or seen get a modification. "Coil into your right side" or "Turn your left shoulder over your right foot" or whatever are also culprits. Either way, there's no straw man - that move is seen ALL THE TIME. It's reality.
Post a Comment